Let's Discuss Judging is a Group for open discussion of dog shows and dog show judging. It's purpose is to share information on our experiences at shows and to gain insight on the experiences of others. Inquiries concerning individual judges are permitted. Experiences with individual judges may be posted provided that the stated experience is YOURS and not hearsay.

A word of warning, sometimes the discussions go a bit far afield from actual judging situations such as variations in particular breeds, grooming concerns, and show wins but overall we discuss DOGS and shows.

Why "Let's Discuss Judging"?
In June, 2001 after a series of unpleasant experiences on another list, Mr.Gregory Alden Betor decided to start a list where "civility" was the key word.  A list where dog people, from novice breeder/exhibitors to long time judges, could meet and exchange ideas in an atmosphere of support and cooperation.  It was decided that no moderation of posts would occur but rather that the list would exist based on the good sense and common interest of the members.

When the list was begun, it was hoped that we could reach a membership of 200 or so.  Never was it anticipated that we would reach our present membership of just under 2,000!

In the three years of it's existence, there have been a total of four occasions where the moderator has had to step in and ask a list member to "ratchet down the tone of their discussion".  Four out of over 36,000 messages posted to the list!

The success of the list has exceeded all expectations...a testimony to the "civility" of our members and of the dog show world in general!
The list welcomes new comers to the dog show world as well as experienced breeder/exhibitors and judges and all in between.

We welcome breeder/exhibitors and judges from the USA, Canada, or any other country.
The sole requirement is that all posts be in good taste with absolutely no flaming or disrespect to other members permitted. Feel free to express your opinion, but please do so in a manner that reflects good sportsmanship.

Our main purpose is to make the showing of dogs more pleasant for all concerned.

-Gregory Alden Betor
Andy's Story
Gene Williams
Who would have known in 1996 that a "little" pup would turn into a great show dog!  UKC/AKC Ch. Dune's Deep River Golden Son, or Andy as we call him, became just that!
Andy, known to his breeder as "the Chihuahua pup", came to us at 10 weeks old.  I wasn't looking to add another collie just yet, but you can't "Just Look"!  In October of 1996 he started his show career with a bang!  We took a 3 point major by going Best of Winners. He finished his title the same way in June of 1998.  I continued to show Andy, on occasion, but he was also showing in Junior Showmanship with a young man by the name of Patrick Jones.  This was thrilling for Patrick, and Andy really taught him some things about showing!
With new pups arriving and other dogs to show, Andy was retired for the first time.  I have since learned never to say you are retiring a dog unless you absolutely mean it!  At the age of 8, I once again had Andy step into the spotlight for a Collie Specialty.  The Judge was Joseph Molloy, and we entered the Veterans Class for the first time.  This was to be the first of two Specialty Best of Variety's for Andy.  Then it was on to the 2004 Nationals for our first appearance in the Veterans Class.  Andy and his litter-brother, CH. Bo-Dandy's Fuzzy Wuzzy, competed side by side.  Sadly, Andy didn't win, but oh did he have fun!  He lives for the applause!
Now I retired him for the second time!  In 2006, I brought Andy out of retirement, once again, to compete in a Collie Specialty.  Andy was on his game and Judge Thomas Coen pointed to us for Best of Variety!  While getting our ribbons Judge Coen asked me how old Andy was (at the time he had just shy of 10 years old).  He told me that he was amazed how well Andy had matured.  In May of that same year I registered Andy with the United Kennel Club (UKC) just to have some fun.  It was, Andy completed his Championship requirements in one weekend!  Now he had TWO Titles!
I retired him for the Third time!  In 2007 the Collie Nationals were held in North Carolina.  Once again, out of retirement came Andy.  Once again we competed against Fuzzy Wuzzy, and once again we lost.  But to see those two 11 year old boys have so much fun in the ring I didn't mind losing.  We came back home and I was going to retire Andy for the final time.  But he had other ideas.  In May, Andy decided that NOW was the time to become a Stud Dog and a sire!  We are expecting his FIRST litter (at the age of 11-1/2) towards the 4th of July (or maybe sooner...!).
I'm not retiring Andy any time soon, I have learned my lesson!

Gene Williams
Dune Collies - Home to Andy, the Retirement King